Modern warfare history book – “Building Militaries in Fragile States” (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2017) – Mara Karlin interview

Dr. Mara Karlin started her career working in the Middle East. She then went to graduate school and interned in the Pentagon on strategic issues. Eventually she served as the deputy assistant secretary of defense for strategy & force development in the Department of Defense. She is now a professor at Johns Hopkins University where she teaches in the field of Strategic Studies. This is her first book.

1:54 – Dr. Karlin was a policymaker in the Pentagon in the aughts and she worked on building militaries in Pakistan and Lebanon. She had an early interest in Middle East issues and ended up getting an internship in the Pentagon while studying at Johns Hopkins.

3:55 – The book tries to answer the question of how the US can be successful when it builds militaries in fragile states. The US is adverse to sending in its own military into fragile states. The US tries to work with the militaries in these fragile states. Dr. Karlin looked at various case studies from history.

5:19 – She looked at Asia, Europe and the Middle East. The big failure example is the South Vietnam in the 1950s. If the US had succeeded in building the South Vietnam military then the war could have been avoided.

7:15 – Two other failures are Lebanon in the 1980s and in Iraq in recent years. The closest thing to success is US efforts in Greece after WWII.

9:06 – The US got deeply into Greece’s military affairs. That transformed the Greek military and enabled them to beat guerillas and the US didn’t have to send in troops.

15:13 – There were different levels of cooperation. Institutional and strategic versus operational and tactical. People think that the US only started developing foreign militaries after 9/11.

17:28 – More desperation in a government makes foreign countries more willing to listen to what the US has to say.

21:23 – The US goes through stages of increased and decreased support for foreign militaries. However, the US shows consistency in security goals since WWII. Only recently have security issues been inconsistent.

25:25 – Bipartisan agreement on security affairs has recently begun to diminish.

29:38 – The document she found that hit heard the hardest was finding a declassified CIA agency study of a gap in Beirut where attackers were sneaking through to attack their enemies. She also found information on a US official who wanted to stage a coup in Lebanon.

33:31 – She really enjoyed studying the development of the Lebanese military work she had done years before.

36:35 – Body count ideas developed in the Vietnam War has affected how the US has approached building foreign militaries. Recently, the US is shifting away from this quantitative approach to this issue.

39:00 – Dr. Karlin had to apply a paradigm shift to her initial hypothesis.

42:30 – Dr. Karlin discusses Reagan’s decision to have the USS New Jersey launch strikes in Lebanon.

45:35 – Dr. Karlin discusses why Lebanon and its military development is important to the US.

For more “Military History Inside Out” please follow me on Facebook at warscholar, on twitter at Warscholar, on youtube at warscholar1945 and on Instagram @crisalvarezswarscholar

Guests: Dr. Mara Karlin

Host: Cris Alvarez

Tags: military, history, military history, conflict, war, interview, non-fiction book, United States, France, Lebanon, Vietnam, Greece, Iraq, Syria, stabilization, strategic studies

Cold War history book – “More Than A Doctrine” (Potomac Books, 2018) – Randall Fowler interview

Randall Fowler has studied rhetoric at the graduate level and has written a new book on the Eisenhower Doctrine. I interviewed him about the book.

1:27 – Randall started in religious history and then spent time teaching in English. There he became more interested in the Middle East and writing history.

2:53 – The book started as a study into the Suez crisis. But then he began to dig into Eisenhower’s feelings about Middle East issues.

3:53 – The book focuses on the rhetoric of the Eisenhower doctrine and what it meant for the Middle East region.

6:59 – Eisenhower had several speechwriters who helped him write 17 drafts of the doctrine and speech.

9:23 – US was most interested in the region for its oil and how that oil supported European security.

12:59 – The Soviet perspective was to resist the US and promote communism in the region.

16:14 – When the Egyptians made a major arms deal with the Soviets, Eisenhower became worried about the inroads they were making in the Middle East. He pushed religion though Arab nationalism at the time was somewhat secular.

19:53 – As a policy, the Eisenhower Doctrine failed. Arabs didn’t support it.

23:38 – Woodrow Wilson is the first President to really talk about the Middle East at all.

28:23 – Iran was the anchor for US defense of the Middle East during the Cold War until 1979. Arabian oil reserves weren’t exploited until the 60s and on and made Arabia more influential.

32:12 – Eisenhower understood that popular opinion mattered. But US maintained influence through the leaders and not so much the people.

39:59 – During this period, the US had nuclear missiles in Turkey which contributed to the Cuban Crisis. Domino theory also made the US worry about the Soviets taking Middle Eastern countries.

45:53 – Eisenhower tried to work to keep the US from having a large standing army. He saw it as wasteful and a threat to democracy.

51:51 – Randall was surprised at the number of foreigners he found in Middle Eastern countries.

 

For more “Military History Inside Out” please follow me on Facebook at warscholar, on twitter at Warscholar, on youtube at warscholar1945 and on Instagram @crisalvarezswarscholar

Guests: Randall Fowler

Host: Cris Alvarez

Tags: military, history, military history, conflict, war, interview, non-fiction book, Middle east, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Eisenhower, Suez canal, UK, Soviet Union

How a young woman developed a WWI spy ring to help the British fight the Ottoman Empire with Gregg Wallance

Greg Wallance The Woman Who Fought an Empire

How a young woman developed a WWI spy ring to help the British fight the Ottoman Empire with Gregg Wallance

Check out this book here   https://amzn.to/2XYhzGq

Gregory Wallance is author of the upcoming book The Woman Who Fought an Empire: Sarah Aaronsohn and Her Nili Spy Ring. In this podcast I interview Mr. Wallance about the details of the book and how he went about researching it. Mr. Wallance has written books on historic legal issues and how the State Department responded to the Holocaust. He has been an Assistant United States Attorney and is currently a lawyer focused on white collar crime. The Woman Who Fought an Empire (Potomac Books, 2018)

Interview Timeline

1:56 – Mr. Wallance begins by discussing his previous work on a book about the criminal justice system in the 1970s. He wrote about the Dred Scott case as well as the State Department’s response to the Holocaust.

2:38 – Mr. Wallance talks about his interest in writing about espionage and WWI and his studies on undercover techniques. His work led him to Sarah’s story.

3:05 – Mr. Wallance discusses the focus of the book. Sarah’s parents were from Romania and were part of the first modern wave of settlers to Israel. Her life resembled that of a pioneer child. She learned to ride horses, shoot and work in the fields. She was highly intelligent and well-educated woman.

4:15 – Sarah’s parents were part of a wave of hundreds of Romanians who went to Palestine without the needed farming skills. Sarah married a Constantinople businessman and moved there but the war broke out and she became homesick. She took a train back to her settlement to see her family. Her thousand-mile train trip went through the area of the Armenian genocide as it was occurring. Sarah witnessed this and feared this same thing could happen to her Jewish people in Palestine. She saw horrible atrocities against Armenians as she traveled. She decided that Great Britain must be the Ottoman Empire to avoid this. Her brother joined her in her new plan.

8:18 – Mr. Wallace says the book is a celebration of Sarah’s courage. Her first shock was what she witnessed. The second was the death of a close friend who was leading the spy ring. Sarah took over the ring after his death. She did so under very dangerous conditions behind enemy lines. The British collected her intelligence one a month by ship. Most of the ring was made up of unruly male Jews, many who loved her. But she was committed to her spying. She saw it as a sacred duty. Her brother was in Cairo working with British intelligence and he begged her to go to Cairo but she refused. The British officers she dealt with admired her commitment to the cause and her courage.

12:08 – The British used some Arab agents but didn’t have many spies in the area. They found Sarah’s ring to have been the only worthwhile one. It might have been the best British spy system of the war. Some of her agents were Jewish men in the Ottoman Army. One of her best coups was finding out about new planes the Ottomans were sending to the Sinai. The information informed the British they would lose air superiority in the Sinai and they were able to respond to this threat and regained air superiority and won the third battle of Gaza thought they lost the first two. They were then able to conquer Jerusalem.

15:24 – Sarah would travel through the countryside and clandestinely meet with the troops who gave her the information they had collected. She didn’t look like a spy. However, she was eventually found it. Only Sarah and her brother knew that the leader of the spy ring had died in the desert. He was charismatic and inspiring and they didn’t want the others to lose morale by finding out he was died. Sarah cold-bloodedly told her spies he had gone to Britain to train. One member of the ring didn’t believe her and went off to Cairo to learn the truth. The Ottomans caught him and tortured him until he gave them information on Sarah and others. Sarah ended up being captured in October 1917. She was tortured for four days in her village. Sarah refused to give information and even taunted her captors. She wanted to be remembered as a warrior who had fought for her people. The Turks let her go home to change her dress before being taken for further torture. Sarah had a hidden pistol in the house and used it to shoot herself. She is remembered as the Jewish Joan of Arc. Her home is now a museum and regularly visited by school children.

21:06 – The local population did not support Sarah. Many of the local Jewish people were terrified of retaliation against them all if she were caught. Many told her to stop spying but she refused. But she thought that she needed to save them. Her actions eventually led to the creation of Israel but at the time she was considered a rebel. The area was pretty primitive and horses were the main means to get around. It was an agricultural area. The Ottomans had taken their equipment for the war.

24:00– The locals were subjected to Ottoman brutality but for the most part the local Jewish people tried to keep their heads down and avoid trouble. They had been doing that for two millennia. But Sarah had a different idea.

25:26 – The local Jewish community was made up of Romanian Jews but also Russian and Eastern European wars. The community was prosperous and somewhat cultured before the war. It was known as little Paris.

26:46 – Many of the locals who had known her since she was a child and who led the community were angry with her but they didn’t turn her in. Sarah was observant in her religion but was not very religious according to the record. Her family did care about Jewish traditions.

28:51 – Mr. Wallance went to Israel to research the book. He went to the museum and Sarah’s family home. Her sister collected the letters she exchanged with others. Mr. Wallance needed translators for these letters which were written in an older version of Hebrew. Most of the book is based on the letters.

30:23 – Mr. Wallance consulted with historians and checked secondary sources. Her brother had been famous for his ability in agricultural science and his discoveries. A fund was set up to help him build an agricultural research facility in Palestine. The building became the headquarters for the spy ring. They collected their information for the British there and meet the British sailors on the beach. The British would provide supplies in return.

33:32 – The most interesting artifact he found was the family home. The home even had an escape tunnel in case of a raid. It also had a cubbyhole where Sarah hid her gun. Sarah couldn’t use the escape tunnel because the Ottomans had too many guards around the house. The guards were trying to keep any spies from escaping the town. The Ottomans also threatened to destroy the town if the others didn’t turn the spies in. When Sarah had been led from the torture house to her own home to change her dress, many locals cursed Sarah and threw stones at her. One witness said it was women throwing the stones and cursing at her. Some even told the Ottomans where to search. Sarah was able to write down their names since the Turks spoke their names and Sarah overheard and knew Turkish. There is a tale that later the spies found these women and killed them. However, the Jewish spies were reviled even after the war. Over time, Sarah became regarded as a hero and a leader. People began to conduct pilgrimages to her home on the day of her death.

43:04 – A policeman in 1967 thought he could find the gravesite of Sarah’s friend Feinberg who had died in the desert. After the Six Day War, Israel captured the Sinai and then the policeman was able to work with local Bedouins to find Feinberg’s bones under a date palm tree. The lore is that the date tree grew from dates Feinberg had with him and that maybe they were dates Sarah had given him. Feinberg was then given a military funeral. Then a formal ceremony was held at Sarah’s grave.

47:56 – The most enjoyable part of the research was reading the translated letters and feeling that she came alive. He was most surprised by the transition Sarah underwent in a short period. She went from housewife to leader of a spy ring. A highly effective leader of a spy ring. One mystery was how she learned of Feinberg’s death and her relationship with him. Some think it was a romance, but it also seems it might simply have been a very strong friendship. Feinberg had been engaged to Sarah’s sister. The ties of loyalty and devotion between all three of them was strong.

52:43 – Sarah showed dread at having to tell Feinberg’s family the truth about his death. She was fearful and felt grief over having to lie and to reveal what she had done.

54:05 – Mr. Wallance hopes to make Sarah accessible to Americans. He hopes the book rebuts the Hollywood myth of female spies as femme fatales. He says the stereotype is unfair.

55:23 – Mr. Wallance had been working on a book about three spies – Sarah and two others. That was too difficult so he cut it down to just Sarah. The book can be found on Amazon and will be formally released on March 1. He has recordings of readings from Sarah’s letters at http://www.gregorywallance.com/.

Links to items mentioned

https://amzn.to/2XYhzGq

www.GregoryWallance.com

For more “Military History Inside Out” please follow me on Facebook at warscholar, on twitter at Warscholar, on youtube at warscholar1945 and on Instagram @crisalvarezswarscholar

Guests: Gregory Wallance

Host: Cris Alvarez

Tags: world war one, palestine, spies, british, ottoman, jewish, female spy, israel, sarah aaronsohn, turks, armenians, romania, sinai

Check out this book here   https://amzn.to/2XYhzGq

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